Wise or wreckless?
Beck doesn't seem to be aware of a backlash against him coming from the evangelical right, but - as is the case with many of Beck's assertions - he's foisting his opinion and values upon a delicate situation anyway. This plan of Jones really does need many clear and adult voices to oppose; however, some people would be wiser to not attempt to influence Pastor Jones. Atheists, agnostics, and cult members would be smart to allow those in Jones' own circle of faith sway his understanding of God's answer to his prayers. Beck wrote in his blog:
I’m on vacation and trying to unplug but the news can make that hard. I just read the story about the Florida church planning to burn copies of the Koran.
What is wrong with us? It’s just like the Ground Zero mosque plan. Does this church have the right? Yes. Should they? No. And not because of the potential backlash or violence. Simply because it is wrong. The more I reflect on what happened on 8/28 the more I realize the amazing power of GOOD.
We must be the better person. We must be bigger than our problems. Bigger than the times in which we live. Burning the Koran is like burning the flag or the Bible. You can do it, but whose heart will you change by doing it? You will only harden the hearts of those who could be moved. None of those who are thinking about killing us will be affected, but our good Muslim friends and neighbors will be saddened. It makes the battle that they face inside their own communities even harder.
Let us rise above the current levels and elevate ourselves and our country. The only thing this act would prove is that you CAN burn a Koran. I didn’t know America was in doubt on that fact. Let’s prove to each other that while there are many things we can do, there are maybe many more things that we choose not to do.
One pastor of a small congregation planning to burn the Koran is not at all like the proposed Park 51 cultural center. (Calling it the Ground Zero Mosque is a popular, right-wing deception. Park 51 is not even in view of Ground Zero, and it will not be a mosque.) Park 51 has been approved by a city board and is supported by the mayor. Pastor Jones seems to have no adult's approval. More to the point, building the cultural center would improve tensions between Islam and the West; burning the Koran would do just the opposite. These two proposals would have opposite effects upon the world and the fight against Islamic extremists.
Pastor Terry Jones
Beck is wrong about what burning the Koran would prove. If Jones' God does not intervene and change his mind, his provacative deed would also prove that he may burn a Koran in a free country, although there are fire ordinances to consider. That he can is a matter of physics; that he may is a matter of law. Worse though, is that Beck is also wrong about those who may be thinking about joining the ranks of the Islamic terrorists or even those already in their ranks. Burning the Koran Saturday could inflame hatred sufficient to push some young Muslims to join the jihad against America and strengthen the resolve of those already in the fight. This is why General Petraeus spoke out so early against this idea. Beck is wrong about why Jones should not engage in this hateful act. I has a LOT to do with the backlash against our troops abroad that he pretends to care so much about and against the United States at home. Burning the Koran is wrong as Beck decried; it is also tactically stupid.
Beck's claim that "[i]t's just like the Ground Zero Mosque plan" is false for multiple reasons, but his decision to express himself in this delicate, prayerful matter may have been a mistake. Consider that Pastor Jones may regard Mr. Beck to be a false prophet and the messenger of a cult. Even if Beck had made an honest point, which he did not on several levels, he is not the appropriate voice to have in Pastor Jones' mind when he bows his head to pray on this plan with such grave, world wide consequences. Beck should shut up and pray that God reminds Pastor Jones of the name of his "outreach center." God knows that it's not called the Hawk World Spark Center.
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Pastor Jones doesn't need approval from "adults" because he has approval from the highest court in the land.
I'm sad that he feels the need to mock others, but I'm frightened more by folks who suggest he needs "approval" to practice his constitutionally protected right to free speech.
Also, it IS correct to compare the burning to Park 51. On one hand you discount the feelings of some new yorkers as irrational, on the other hand you worry about the feelings of some over sensitive nuts?
Jones has self-approval from his hateful mind. Period. He certainly is not following the teachings of Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible.
I don't discount the "feelings" of some New Yorkers. In fact, their organization has sent Jones a letter asking him to not go ahead with his plan. They know what General Petreaus knows: that this Koran burning will rouse borderline Muslims into action, much the way Glenn Beck has roused uninformed viewers of Fox Propaganda into action based upon his lies, false claims, misrepresentations, etc.
I "worry" about this because our soldiers on the battlefield will die because Pastor Jones lacks common sense. Americans here may also be targeted.
The comparison is flawed for the reasons I've laid out. When we need to tamp down the flames of extremism, Pastor Jones is planning on pouring gas (perhaps literally) on the passions of those who could be swayed to understand that the U.S. is not a country of hateful Islamaphobes. I'm not concerned about the feelings of those who may react violently toward our soldiers and fellow citizens; I'm concerned about their bombs. To his credit, President Bush recognized this in the aftermath of 9-11 and made the distinction between Islamic terrorists and Muslims in general.
Too bad Pastor Jones didn't get the memo. Americans blood will be dripping off his fingers, denial or otherwise.
I'm not a christian. In fact I'm an atheist. I couldn't care less if his actions follow that of the bible. We're all protected under the first amendment, thankfully.
You sound like the Bush administration, quite frankly.
Were you upset when pictures of torture came out from Abu Ghraib? How about the wikileaks dump?
Are we supposed to not enjoy our liberties out of fear of retribution?
Give me a break.
I'm trying to be reasonable, and yes the Bush Administration was right in not making this war against Islamic terrorists a broad-based attack on Islam. No one is arguing that Jones doesn't have a 1st Amendment right to burn the Koran; the argument is that he'd be stupid, flat out stupid to make our mission in Afghanistan more difficult than it already is. It would also put the homeland at greater risk.
I was upset about the Abu Ghraib, of course. The Wikileaks dump was actually filtered to protect our (NATO) contacts, and nothing especially new was revealed in them. So long as Wikileaks continues to act responsible to the troops and our allies, then no, I am not upset by that they released.
If "our liberties" are defined by the fascistic burning of books, then I think it's you who needs to give yourself a break.
Let me ask; would it be cool with you if the local fundamentalist church held a burning of atheistic books near your home? It would be protected under the 1st Amendment, but would it be smart?
Can we agree that burning books is pretty un-American?
"Let me ask; would it be cool with you if the local fundamentalist church held a burning of atheistic books near your home? It would be protected under the 1st Amendment, but would it be smart?" - your quote
"Does this church have the right? Yes. Should they? No." - Glenn Beck
Wow, you and Glenn Beck actually sound like you are making the same point, exactly. But, you are still hating on how he said it, though you said it the same. You take him in small bits, out of context to the greater message, and present it like he wasn't making the greater message.
Do you do this on purpose? If you do, you are more of a propagandist than he, at least his message has a deeper understanding that others will get.
And no, it wouldn't bother me if someone burned a book. It is just a book...
I'm not "hating" how he said it; I'm pointing out that some people like Pastor Jones think that Mormonism is a cult. The last person who needs to be whispering into Jones' ear, offering him advice or joining the chorus of voices in opposition to Mr. Jones is a controversial Mormon.
To be clear, I am not opposed to Mormonism. I just think that this fruit in FL may see advice from Mr. Beck as a sign from God to proceed with his Koran burning. Mr. Beck lacks the subtlety of mind and sophistication to understand that his advice (because he's a Mormon) may make matters worse.
What is really needed in this situation is to have the media return to normal and ignore the extremist wing-nuts like Pastor Jones. He and other crazies can do what they like, and if it's not reported as "news" (because it's NOT), then no one will be the wiser, no one will be harmed, no one will care.
If a Koran burns in the middle of the woods and no one notices, will it have an impact?
I'm presenting his "greater context" as much as a blog can. Come back soon when I debunk Beck's absurd "Tree of Revolution."
I have a blog. I CANNOT become more of a propagandist than Beck who has a radio program, a show on a major network, an awesome website, his own news organization. Your assertion is absurd.
Finally; it's not "just a book" any more than the Bible is "just a book." You, too, lack the subtlety of mind and sophistication to understand what's at stake here.
You have made one HUGE leap in your argument, so huge for me that it discounts virtually everything else you said: "More to the point, building the cultural center would improve tensions between Islam and the West." I'm glad you believe that, but I believe EXACTLY the opposite. I believe it will do as much or more to inflame relations between Islam and the West as any event since the 9/11 attacks. Why? Because it is a bit like a "sore winner." Not only did they kill almost 3000 Americans, they then turned around and stuck their tongue out at us and said, "Look what else we're doing, you jerks!"
But here is the most important thing--neither you nor I have a clue what the final impact will be of the cultural center. They are both opinions. You have absolutely no idea what the reaction to the cultural center may be. You have a guess, just as I do. The difference is, you are willing to turn on the buzz saw and stick your hand into it unprotected, as the risk of being right. I'm willing to unplug the machine and walk away--at the risk of being wrong.
I think the problem with your review is that you're assuming Mormon Beck's commentary to be more influential than the Atheist TV/radio/news programs that are far more numerous, when everyone is saying the same thing.
"If one person were to call me a monkey, I'd probably ignore it. If everyone were to call me a monkey, I'd probably invest in a mirror."
Why do you propose Glenn Beck's commentary will have more weight than any other media program- let alone all of them combined? It's illogical to propose one cultist in the media will have more impact than all the collective heathens on this man's religiously motivated plans.
Admittedly, this ordeal is resolved, but I still felt it proper to resolve this fallacy.
I like what Beck had to say. It was simple and true. Can this pastor burn this book? Yes. Should he? No. The particulars of fire laws aside. You have your good in bad in every group. You have good decent Christian people. You have your nuts. You have your law abiding atheists and you have those that feel no one should be of faith and present themselves as athiests. And while I cannot tell you I know we have good muslims, because I don't know any personally, I believe there are, just as there are those who hate Christians. What I can tell you personally is I would take absolutely no joy in seeing someone else's holy book destroyed and I also fail to see how that glorifies God. And maybe we should be asking ourselves if what we do does glorify God before we procede in our activities. And for those that don't believe in God, well I guess we can hope they have good morals and values in which to base their behavior on.
" I'm pointing out that some people like Pastor Jones think that Mormonism is a cult."
who gives a crap what he (Jones) thinks or what you think for that matter. your articles are just pathetic attacks on Glenn Beck while throwing in a few tidbits so as the article isn't solely Beck bashing. You couldn't tie the man's boots and it drives you crazy. TOOL!
Ken, this "HUGE leap" in my argument is what Iman Faisal Rauf is arguing. Reactionaries like Islamaphobist, Pamela Gellar, are using this to "inflame relations between Islam and the West." The suckers for propaganda and fear-mongering are buying it.
You completely miss the point of this post which is that no Mormon should be lending advice to an evangelical Christian. The latter believe the former to be a cult. Beck (a bull) needs to stay the hell out of certain issues (China shops) because as an unrefined, uneducated political extremist he is as likely to do more harm than good.
You should consider unplugging Glenn Beck and walking away or risk being embarrassed or even part of an unnatural disaster.
Conrad, I'm not assuming anything. Beck is influential and a number of evangelicals are very uncomfortable about his influence. I'm not sure what "atheist TV/radio/news programs" to which you refer, but yes there are as I suggest many who should not have been advising Jones directly. There were enough conservatives (prompted by Olbermann among others) and Protestants who called Jones out and warned him.
You argue about logic, and that's irrelevant to people like Jones. Jones was praying on it, and my sense is that cultists, atheists and others should have had the wisdom to not be giving advise to an obviously morally disturbed man.
Anonymous wrote, "I like what Beck had to say. It was simple and true." Simple, yes. True? No. Burning (destruction and rousing ire) is not comparable to building (construction and building ties).
My point is that Beck needs to be wiser and realize that people like Jones may not be keen on advise from a Mormon. Beck is a moral bull (liar and hypocrite) in a china shop (delicate situation).
Anonymous "who gives a crap what he (Jones) thinks or what you think for that matter. your articles are just pathetic attacks on Glenn Beck while throwing in a few tidbits so as the article isn't solely Beck bashing. You couldn't tie the man's boots and it drives you crazy. TOOL!"
Uh huh, I'm a tool. Do you know the meaning of that word? This is another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
This Review is a public service, a yellow flag of warning: Glenn Beck is a liar, a hypocrite and a charlatan. These three claims are well documented here. It's not Beck bashing; they're just the facts. Beck is the tool maker, and you are evidence of just how effective Mr. Beck in that roll.
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